Yeah.let us be honest.A 25 year veteran flight attendant is not someone most of us want on a flight. And many of the commenters on here will fill seats when UA is 5x the price on the same route regardless of what they think of labor rights or real college education. Interesting, @EMBCAPTN. There are highly educated older people sitting around and posting on onemileatatime.com somewhat bored while a high-earning spouse pulls down a large salary. I think the best way for this airline to implement their business model is to pay for its pilots training from 0 hrs to 1500 hrs and then these pilots can work for them at their pay scale that will make more sense. A huge percentage of new flight attendants leave within the first year. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. Let's ask Don Burr how his cult airline worked out? Fingers crossed and ready to go! Is there a penalty for leaving early? As a college student, I love the idea! These numbers are minimums. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners, Pilots generally get paid for flight hours; the hourly rate might seems high, but pilots arent getting paid for anywhere close to 40 hours per week of work, Pay varies depending on whether youre captain or first officer, and each year your pay typically increases, up to a certain cap, Other than hourly pay, one other important metric is minimum guaranteed monthly hours, since guaranteed hours multiplied by hourly pay guarantees your minimum monthly pay, First officers will be paid $55 per hour in year one, and $94 per hour in year six, Captains will be paid $117 per hour in year one, and $143 per hour in year six, Pilots are only guaranteed pay for 55 hours per month of flying (this is really the worst part, since pilots at most airlines are guaranteed 75+ hours per month), A first officer is looking at earning $36,300 in the first year, and $62,040 in the sixth year, A captain is looking at earning $77,220 in the first year, and $94,380 in the sixth year, In absolute terms these are above average salaries in the US, However, pilot training is expensive, and an Embraer 195 has nearly 120 seats, so its bigger than your typical regional jet; also, the airline will eventually fly A220s, and presumably pay wont be much better, Breeze is expecting more from pilots than regional airlines, as applicants already need a type rating for Embraer aircraft, and also need more experience, Lets compare Breeze pilot pay to JetBlue pilot pay, since, Lets compare Breeze pilot pay to SkyWest pilot pay; pilots often go to regional airlines to gain experience early on, and this typically represents the lowest pay youll find in the airline industry, First officers are paid $89 per hour in year one, and $130 per hour in year six, Captains are paid $192 per hour in year one, and $203 per hour in year six, Pilots are guaranteed pay for 75 hours per month of flying, A JetBlue Embraer 190 first officer is looking at earning $80,100 in the first year, and $117,000 in the sixth year, A JetBlue Embraer 190 captain is looking at earning $172,800 in the first year, and $182,700 in the sixth year, First officers are paid $45 per hour in year one, and $59 per hour in year six, Captains are paid $79 per hour in year one, and $91 per hour in year six, Pilots are guaranteed pay for 76 hours per month of flying, A first officer is looking at earning $41,040 in the first year, and $53,808 in the sixth year, A captain is looking at earning $72,048 in the first year, and $82,992 in the sixth year, The most unreasonable part of Breezes pay arrangement is the minimum guaranteed hours, rather than the hourly rate as such; everyone needs a certain amount of money to cover their bills, and the minimum monthly amount sure is low, Breeze is essentially trying to pay like a regional airline, while requiring more experience to get hired (pilots need to be type rated on Embraer aircraft, and need 1,000 hours of fixed-wing turbine time), Between the flight attendant employment arrangement and the pilot pay, it doesnt seems like Breeze is trying to build a culture that encourages employees to stay with the company long term, It takes years (and a lot of money) to get to the point where you can get this job, youre flying a plane that retails for tens of millions of dollars, and you have the lives of nearly 120 people at a time in your hands, and youre potentially being paid ~16% above a $15 minimum wage (which we have in many cities nowadays). I don't know how Breeze expects to hire the best people who invest in the job at those wages. They can't practice on their own. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. No we need less and need more solid middle class jobs. JetBlue First Officers: $89 an hour for year 1 and $130 an hour by year 6, Captains at JetBlue: $192 an hour to start, then a climb to $203 an hour by year. I'm a flight attendant for JetBlue Airways and I make $56 per hour, that is, after 15 years but still. And that doesn't include per diem. I already feel bad for the disadvantaged kids that will end up getting wrangled into this to help pay for a couple semesters of college. And I think at the moment there are a lot of pilots looking for work. I knew one guy that slept in the crew lounge and wandered DEN between trips. First Officer 1st year $89 and $130 in year six. The concept does turn on to be "too good to be true" at least for me, just based on the insurance matter alone. I'm a 'union guy' for sure. Yes, I'm probably talking about you dummy. NGPA Expo - February 9-10 in PSP Booth 525, Women in Aviation - February 23-25 in LGB - Booth 549, TPNx April 21-22 in MCO, Currently hiring E190/195 and A220 First Officers, E190/195 Captains, and Australian Pilots that hold or have previously held an E-3 visa, New hire classes every month for the E190/195 and A220, Scheduled passenger service on the E190/195 flying consists of day trips (no overnights) with limited flying on Tuesday and Wednesday, Charter business is very robust on the E190/195 Charter flights may operate any day of the week, A220 operates a traditional schedule 7 days per week, Significant growth and expansion planned over the next 5 years, Breeze flies to 30+ cities from coast to coast, Eight A220s delivered as of August 2022 - 73 more to be delivered and options for 40 more, Ejet fleet projected to grow to 30 by 2025, A220 fleet is projected to grow to nearly 60 by the end of 2025, A new training center opened in SLC with one E190/195 simulator and one A220 simulator, $200 million in funding was raised in August of 2021. They relentlessly play the fear card, citing safety or at times implicitly threatening your safety. Failing that, they were determined to not pay one dime more than their competition. (the "free" school and housing comes out of their pay just as much as if they got full pay, and paid for the school/housing themselves). As a pilot with one of the aforementioned regionals, this is an ongoing conversation. End stage capitalism here people. So a lifelong career. @Wendy B Gates - Breeze didn't specifically tell me I'm too old, they said I was overqualified. Im a bit confused. No Per Diem. Breeze Airways Opens Flight Attendant Recruitment Beyond Online And even if you talked endlessly to that reassuring gray-haired physician in the lead-up to your surgery, you know, the guy or gal who wrote the textbook on your ailment and who appears a shoe-in to be the next chairman of the school of medicine at the cutting-edge research institution where you've opted to get the very best care (you deserve it! All around me were developers making millions of dollars of year in salary and stock options, and there was little old me, paid hourly making about $28,000 a year in an expensive city. There is not a lot to do these days in an aircraft cabin. I'm nearing ATP mins as a CFI and it looks interesting. ", but I actually challenge you to schedule surgery with a doctor with only a GED. This business model shows that there is still tremendous opportunity to drive down wring out costs in flying. $36.76. An economy and society needs its worker bees as much as (more than?) It's extremely spot on that the second comment on this article was written by a guy whose photo is a selfie in his car while wearing sunglasses. Prime Minister/Moderator. If the labor model is as stupid and exploitative as you seem to believe it is, it will fail. Feel sorry for the FAs but this guy could be either a genius or just throwing at the wall to see what sticks. Many may not have developed interactional skills with customers (passengers) and feel this job can help teach them that skill. Unfortunatetly, US travel and passenger fare remains an uncertainty. Our business address is: This is how young doctors learn their craft in America and all over the world. I would have jumped at this deal in college. The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered. They are taking advantage of a market surplus. So, that will Hey. If a for-profit-company hires someone and calls an "intern," that person is still an employee and subject to all of the requirements of the FLSA, And was told that 90% would be "turns", out and back same day - no layovers. Reviews from Breeze Airways employees about working as a Flight Attendant at Breeze Airways. Anyone have any info on what flying for Breeze Airways is like? Oh the horror of being open about the terms of the jobs and the compensation and then allowing potential flight attendants to decide if they want to accept the arrangement. Also, let's be honest: COVID is a new reality for pilots. Sounds ripe for an age discrimination lawsuit at some point too. Their value is astronomical. So, before any taxes at all, they would be looking at $20-30/hr. Our normal business hours are Monday-Friday 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. (Pacific Time). Clearly Breeze has already figured out that people who fall into their trap will regret their circumstances; that's why Breeze is also making them sign a 4-year contract. I interviewed at Breeze a few months back. But how does this affect pay for pilots? Breeze Airways Jobs & Careers - 22 Open Positions | Glassdoor To work part-time only, with no benefits, as an "intern". Mar 23, 2022 May I ask the age range that they are seeking @TravisFromORD? Great article !!! While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. The Dept. There are young people for whom a collegial work environment and highly social university-style housing would be quite appealing while they build skills. Breeze Airways Hello! Yes, I am hoping for the best for this start up! But thank you again for the advice. There are almost 1000 E175/E190 type rated pilots from ExpressJet and Compass. Barracks or proper housing and will the company take it out of their paycheque? You think the fact they've bought a union card somehow empowers them with experience? American would attempt to get the lowest pay rates in the industry on comparable equipment. They make expensive mistakes. My airline had a trip that left LGA early in the morning to CMH. Ive written in the past about Breezes controversial approach to hiring flight attendants, which requires being enrolled in college and living in company housing. Breeze Airways We spend $100K plus on flight training plus college for most of us. The founder of the airline is David Neeleman, the same guy behind JetBlue. Whatta country! 2) Free Travel! And which also clearly states that there will be no contract renewal. As youd expect, existing flight attendant unions will no doubt be targeting Breeze: The largest U.S. flight attendants union says it looks like an attempt to abuse federal work-study subsidies to hold down labor costs. Landing June 2023. In fact, the concept seems brilliant and hope I make it through the process and get selected. 8 hours reserve gets 4 hours of pay $38 per hour. This is a prime example of how capitalism is at the cancer stage in the United States, and rapidly approaching stage 4. "fun little add-ons" er surely time-consuming adverts interrupting one's day asking one to pay for something high quality airlines provide as part of their price. Im sure theyd leap at the chance to earn USD given the depreciation of the R$. We live in a free market economy. After taxes and insurance I . The company may credit new hires for any prior active years of service at another Part 121/135 air carrier or at a Mesa-affiliated pilot development program for purposes of calculating years of service for compensation, vacation, and retirement. the percentage of revenues it gets to keep, but because Spirit makes so little revenue on their high-cost investments they don't add up to much. This isnt a job, its servitude by hopeless people who have been abandoned by their government and economic system. There have been several regionals that have gone under recently which have temporarily flooded the market with pilots. It can be very exciting and rewarding, but. the recruiters told me: *Layovers will be rare (mechanical issues, weather), trip planning will be turns out and back same day. Does the hourly rate even amount to minimum wage? We don't really know enough at this point. Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim. Checking in Online. I wish more airlines provided housing options. Not sure if labor pool for whom the model fits is really large enough to support high turnover baked into the model or can support scale to provide regular flight frequency but we'll see. In other words, the airline is trying to exclude anyone who has a family, a college degree, or is looking to build a career. While perhaps not quite as controversial, Breezes approach to hiring pilots is also raising some eyebrows, as flagged by @StringAndRuder and @AirlineFlyer. There are rules about pilots moonlighting in order to ensure they are properly rested for duty. And you're worried about the quality of housing? 1. By clicking the Send button, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy, and to the use of cookies described therein, and you also consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the United States where the level of data protection may be different from that in your country. Breeze Airways Pilots are responsible for ensuring safe and timely flight operations in accordance with all Company policies and Federal Aviation Regulations. You think this college student focused recruit is the only thing they've planned for beyond the short term? There will be plenty of applicants! And their policy looks discriminatory to me as it seems to (without directly saying it) exclude any older, experienced flight attendants and those who are married. Not discussed here is the difference between flight hours and duty day. According to Neeleman: Ive shared my general thoughts on Breeze in the past, though based on these updates I have a few more things to add: Breeze should be launching operations shortly, becoming the second new US airline to launch in a matter of weeks. I think Breeze will likely be cheaper while SW offers 2 free checked bags. [Breeze] Airways - Airline Pilot Central Forums They are not hired to be sex symbols and keep men sexually entertained through out the flight; therefore, I could care less how old you are as long as you can save my life in the event of an emergency. People can't really be this stupid. Many young girls and guys want to be a flight attendant from 20-65 or older. Think lifeguards. I'm a retired AA captain. Flew my 4day trip and took a Delta flight departing at 12:25am to MSP and connected to MDW. Also: are families welcome? Fly for less money and less stress. Yep.when there is an emergency on board and seconds or mistakes can mean the difference between life and death, what I want is a bunch of 20 something overgrown teenagers with absolutely no investment in their jobs in charge! Not everyone is born into wealth and that could be one of the deciding factors for people to apply. As an MD and introducing herself to patients as "Doctor", her salary started at about $30,000. El Segundo, CA 90245. The pay scale offered is not "borderline exploitative", it IS exploitative. Then, when mainline hiring picks-up (as it inevitably will) they'll dump Breeze like a cheap date. The bad news is that there may not be enough hours. Nevertheless, Breeze Airways is still on track to launch in the US in the first quarter of 2021. The comments in here are so disheartening. Not if you wanted good work done. No other large country trains and hires their airline pilots the way we do. And its an immediate tip-of-the-hat to what their culture will be based onmoney is king, you dont matter. 6) When I have a lay-over in some capital of commerce, I may even be able to interview for my next great adventure for once I graduate! To compare, many carriers guarantee at least 75 hours a month. Pilots are incredibly overpaid as it is. Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. Attn: Airline Pilot Central Dolts.read the whole article. But lets say you have a couple of days off. The significant wage difference may be in anticipation of the economic recovery process ahead. If you are a green bean rookie like Cricket than you will imagine that you have won the lottery.. Must be at least 23 years old at the time of hire, Must have 1,500+ hours total time (not including simulator and/or Flight Engineer time), Current First-Class FAA Medical Certificate, Valid FCC Radiotelephone Operators Permit, Must have or be able to obtain a valid U.S. drivers license, Must have or be able to obtain a valid passport, Must be able to travel unrestricted to and from the United States, Must have authorization to work in the United States as defined by the Immigration Reform Act of 1986, High school diploma or equivalent educational achievement, FAA Unrestricted Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate with airplane multi-engine class rating, Must have a minimum of 3,000 hours fixed wing time. Breeze Airways' 7 Key Problems According to Top Aviation Expert Of course, I will never forget Herb Kelleher walking into a pintos union negotiation and exclaiming to them all, "Let's start by saying that I know you guys would do this nothing if you had to!". I think the FAA needs to look into this. Not Verified | Breeze is an interesting new airline with pros and cons. I'm much more concerned about the pilot pay scale than whatever arrangement Breeze works out with its FAs. Keep working at it, maybe you'll can find an unpaid internship on Arsenio. Impressive to see how discussion of new airline business immediately decedents into anti-religious bigotry. It's quite likely that Breeze wants the low minimum guarantee of 55 so that they can shrink their capacity in the low-demand months without paying pilots to sit. Breeze will initially fly 118-seat Embraer 195s, but eventually plans to operate a fleet consisting exclusively of Airbus A220s. According to the hiring website, the maximum you can work is 60 hours a month and a maximum of 12 days. At first glance, those rates do not seem too unusual. How many people can't afford to start a new business or begin a new endeavour because they are tethered to their current employer solely because of the insurance. Working at Breeze Airways: Employee Reviews | Indeed.com Id be interested in knowing more about the contents and cost of flight attendant training programs. less than daily to leisure/small markets. While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. I think it will succeed as long as they can attract enough flight attendants on an ongoing basis. Interesting model. Spirit flight attendants are generally better than AA and UA. Log in or . If adults want to work the jobs Breeze offers and are satisfied with it then there is no cynical exploitation, even though legacy unions might wish that it were so. Expect PGD, IAG, SFB, ORH, RFD, PIT and to change seasonally. Breeze Airways to Offer Pilots Uncompetitive Pay This seems more in line with what they should be receiving for compensation. Nobody knows yet. If Breeze employees get stock (I'm no insider but assume they will), and Breeze succeeds, they stand to make up later in capital gains potentially much more than they forego today in ordinary income. They pack you in like lemmings in the dorms And you're worried about the quality of housing? "Filet mignon sandwich?" I wonder if their First Class will have free food and drinks (like JetBlue) or if they're taking the Spirit Big Front Seat approach. 3) Solid work experience in my chosen industry! Can the U.S. not have just one decent, heck even mediocre, airline? Lets compare Breezes pilot pay to that of a couple of other airlines: Heres JetBlues Embraer 190 pilot pay scale: JetBlue Embraer 190 pilots get paid way more. Young people / College students have an ability to enjoy activities that are very cheap / free. And I'm not convinced a bright college student can't get the job done. High Flex. Even the ME3 flight attendants start on a salary of around $3,000 per month plus housing and that is tax-free. My only other option right now is to start all over at another regional where the pay, seniority, and quality of life will be much lower. Pilots from Compass and Expressjet will flock to Breeze to maintain currency. Some can force their way, others will accept any offer out of fear to lose their job. I have no doubts in How often is the minimum guaranteed hours exceeded in a given month? Certainly in today's world that is a luxury. At those rates, retention will be a huge problem. Flight Attendants are hired because they are qualified to provide safety & service. The new carrier, founded by serial aviation entrepreneur David Neeleman first teased the idea, code-named Moxy, in mid-2018. Now as you can tell, I am giddy with enthusiasm and by the prospects if I'm selected for the internship! Well your also comparing companies that have been in business for a substantial time period. This would be less cringey if there would be incentives for the flight attendants to move into positions such as pilots or air traffic control. Take it easy. They better start changing the pilot pay or pilots will start leaving to China and make real time money up there . Does everyone just think about cost of a ticket, but not how safe the aircraft are?
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